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10/03/2011

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Jason Parker

"The argument that jazz is "failing" or "dying" because it's too complex or abstract is age-old, and also bullsh*t."

Amen. To me, it's all about 1) presentation, and as you say, 2) the perception of what jazz is.

And while I realize that Layman was trying to be funny, or satirical, or ironic or something, his piece does nothing to help either of those things.

Kick-ass music is kick-ass music. We just need to get our music into the ears of music lovers.

Jason
jason@oneworkingmusician.com

Jon Wertheim

True THAT. One thing I was thinking about when I write this (I just realized it never made it in) was Terrell Stafford's presentation of Billy Strayhorn tunes, compared to a hypothetical Marsalis presentation, or (to head off the usual Marsalis baggage) a Bryan Ferry presentation (one "jazz" career kickstart Layman forgot). Stafford isn't afraid of 2011, and seems confident that Strayhorn's music can weather the now in a way that marsalis never seems to be, almost as if Ellington and Armstrong are too fragile to bear the brunt of an update.

Thanks for your comment, as always.
j

N

Some very good points and overall a good article but your paragraph about Sinatra, Cole and Fitzgerald goes too far. Be careful that in your quest to defend the complexities of modern jazz you don't end up trying to writing off the older or "simpler" music of someone like Ella from the genre of jazz. I can understand your argument for Sinatra and possibly for Nat King Cole as well, but have to draw the line when you try to say that Ella "isn't really jazz."

I understand that you're trying to talk about a certain harmonic sensibility characteristic of Jazz from the latter part of the 20th century. That development is also clearly present in a comparison between Ella and Sarah Vaughan. But Ella's singing comes directly out of big band horn lines and jazz soloists. She would have defined her own music as jazz, nothing else. If the artist and the audience both define their music as Jazz, and if their music comes directly out of the existing genre there really is no defensible way to say she isn't jazz.

Moreover, although I can accept the arguments about the other two a bit more there are some dangerous implications in them. As modern jazz gets farther and farther from popular music it is easy to forget that at one point jazz WAS the popular music. Just because something is simpler and on the charts and thus "popular" doesn't immediately exclude it from being jazz. In the specific case of Nat King Cole I'm not well versed enough in his music to really debate it; however your argument for him making "charming pop music" and thus not jazz, while possibly true, doesn't hold together from the evidence you've cited so far.

All in all I agree with your major point and love a lot of the jazz coming out today. The point I make may seem to be a nit-picky thing for me to get worked up about but I think it is symbolic of a dangerous tendency that shows up too often when people are defending modern jazz. We need to remember that jazz went through many iterations to reach the modern day. To write off Ella in the way that you do could lead us to write off Basie, Armstrong and a host of other quintessentially jazz musicians. I'm simply cautioning against this mistake.

Jon Wertheim

N,

A "mistake" in your eyes, N, not in mine. I wasn't writing off Fitzgerald at all, nor was I condemning her for the reasons you listed.

Fitzgerald (or Basie or Armstrong) was a complex and intelligent performer, and on deserving of her legendary status in the history of music. In the history of jazz? I'm not so sure.

You're right - there was a time, mainly in the 1930s and 1940s, when a certain style of jazz was popular. Glenn Miller, Benny Goodman, Ella Fitzgerald, all were, for a time, jazz musicians. Does that type of jazz exist today? Possibly, in a minority. Is it in any way relevant to the music of Robert Glasper or Ravi Coltrane or Joe Lovano or Rez Abbasi or any number of contemporary jazz musicians? No - not in a way unique to them.

Ella Fitzgerald was jazz from the start of her career to the beginning of bebop. But once bebop came in, she was obsolete, no matter how many scat solos she sang with JATP. My comparison with Sarah Vaughan was mainly about this aspect. Ella sang like a swing musician trying to be hip. Sarah Vaughan was hip, because she has come of musical age in the bebop era, unlike Fitzgerald.

You say "just because something is simpler and on the charts and thus 'popular' doesn't immediately exclude it from being jazz." You couldn't be more right. Every time this logic has been used as a basis for criticism, it has been a mistake (look up Martin Williams for proof). To describe Fitzgerald as simple is an obvious idiocy. But there is a fine line between a Glenn Miller or an Ella Fitzgerald and an Artie Shaw or a Sarah Vaughan. That line is what I was trying to reference here, and that line is why I don't think I am writing off "Basie, Armstrong and a host of other quintessentially jazz musicians." I'm not writing off Ella, either - I'm just recategorizing her.

Thank you for your thoughtful and respectful comment - if you're still unsure about where I'm coming from, please comment again.

-j

Will Layman

Hey, Jon -- Thanks for referencing my column, and I appreciate that you found it witty. That was certainly the intent.

I took plenty of crap about this column in various places, mostly from folks who think I'm selling the great jazz (the great SERIOUS jazz) of today short. But that wasn't my point. I love the more challenging -- and often very contemporary and not at all stodgy -- jazz of today's most interesting players. Jason Moran, Vijay Iyer, Ambrose Akinmusere: all those guys are getting great reviews from me.

But there's no denying that jazz is a serious minority taste today, more so than at any time in its history. That's not a knock on the music, even though my satirical article put it that way. And, man, I'm sorry, but the music's complexity IS a big reason why it doesn't attract an audience. It is now essentially FULLY art music. And while I think that the music' ingenious incorporation of elements of hip-hop and other contemporary elements is worthy of more attention, well: it's still JAZZ -- tricky and complex and harmonically rich. You say that Steely Dan and Weather Report sold lots of records, and that's true. But if you think those bands are considered COOL today, then just poke around some. Steely Dan is pretty much the most reviled band in the classic rock cannon for most younger music fans: too tricky and complex and "inauthentic." That may all be bullshit, but it's what's out there.

And, as my article sort of seriously joked, there are just days when I want to join the ranks of the haters. Why not just LOVE some pentatonic blues licks played with great tone on a Telecaster and NOT bother with a #11 chord brilliantly deployed, you know?

That's the feeling I was trying to seriously evoke.

-- Will Layman

Jon Wertheim

Will -

And thanks back at you for taking my article at face value. I didn't want to write a takedown, and I'm glad I didn't write one unknowingly. I'm with you - in fact, I've been listening to almost straight hip-hop for a month now, but don't tell anyone.

You're completely correct. I think that jazz world could do with some better music videos and more prominent publicity for the more "popular" aspects of performers like Bill Frisell (the Telecaster you mention) and Kurt Rosenwinkel, who can sound exactly like a 1960s/1970s rock guitarist. That there are complex chords doesn't matter.

It's like layers of reality. On one level, we hear a distorted guitar playing ideas that are recognizable, if not identical, from rock. Add another level, we get those ideas across strange chords. Add another level, we get a weird time signature. Add another level... I think any genre is like this, but jazz stands out as one which prides itself on beginning at the reality level farthest removed from the starting point - not a great tactic for connecting with new or alienated listeners.

So yeah, Steely Dan wasn't a great example - just like in jazz, starting a rock band at the farthest level of listener reality isn't a great idea. A minority will dig it - a MINORITY. A better example would be, say, the Kurt Rosenwinkel/Allan Holdsworth connection (which leads to Van Halen and elsewhere). Go to Elmo Hope FROM there, not the other way around!

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